What are We Socializing Them For?
As a homeschooling family, my wife and I occasionally get the predictable, worn-out question, “But what about their social life?”
First of all, the question is utterly bizarre to me, given how much social interaction our kids get between several homeschool groups with tons of activities and outings, and myriad other activities, such as art classes, dance classes, cooking classes, Judo, flag football, etc., not to mention how much they play with neighborhood kids.
The idea that homeschoolers don’t get healthy social interaction is such a backwards, 20-years-ago perception.
Secondly, it makes me laugh when I think back to my public school experience.
Here’s what public school taught me about socialization:
- It’s okay — encouraged, even — to make fun of anyone “different” than you and your core group of friends, particularly the weak, weird, mentally and physically disabled, and poor.
- Within an “acceptable” range, everyone should dress, act, and think like everyone else, and those in any way and to the slightest degree outside of the norm should expect to be mocked mercilessly.
- Appearances are everything.
- You should only interact with those in your grade. Those in higher grades are cooler than you (and are therefore entitled to bully you and everyone else younger than them), and those in lower grades are less than you.
- You should compare yourself to and militantly compete with others.
- What your peers think of you is far more important than what you think of yourself, or what God thinks of you. Sacrifice everything for popularity.
- Don’t question authority; teachers and other authority figures know best. Stay in line. There’s an established, “right” way for everything — don’t deviate.
“The idea of learning acceptable social skills in a school is as absurd to me as learning nutrition from a grocery store.” -Lisa Russell
Based on most accounts I’ve heard, this is quite typical public school “socialization,” which is interesting in and of itself.
But here’s where it gets really interesting: Nowhere outside of high school have any of these been my experience, at least not nearly to the degree felt in high school.
Sure, I’ve experienced the very typical (and relatively benign) perceptions and comments regarding our non-traditional views on things like education, homebirthing, politics, etc.
But nothing even close to the overt and extremely aggressive ostracization, mocking, competitiveness, and bullying I witnessed in high school.
Rather than attending high school my junior and senior years, I attended a community college through a program called Running Start.
Not a single person in college ever cared about what clothes I wore, who I hung out with, what my interests were, how old I was, etc.
It was a completely different world than high school.
In fact, in college diversity was appreciated and encouraged much more than conformity. Everyone I interacted with was respectful and accepting.
It was encouraged to question commonly-accepted truths, habits, societal arrangements, etc.
Since leaving high school, I’ve never had a single friend who cared one whit about my fashion sense (or lack thereof, as the case may be).
I’ve yet to interact with an adult who thinks it’s really cool to make fun of those less privileged than them.
I’m still waiting for an adult to bully me because they’re a year older than me, or an adult to fear me because they’re younger than me.
If socialization outside of public school is nothing like, or is at least substantially different from socialization in public school, then what in the name of John Dewey are we socializing our kids for?
For those who disagree with my experience with and perception of public school socialization, who really value socialization and worry that your kids won’t get it outside of public school, I have a sincere question for you:
What do you want your kids to get from public school socialization (or socialization in general)?
I imagine your responses would include:
- You want them to be confident, emotionally mature, well-adapted, respectful, and considerate.
- You want them to be able to interact with, relate to, and positively influence anyone, regardless of age, race, culture, or any differences of opinions or perceptions.
- You want them to have the courage to stand up for what’s right, even and especially when it’s not popular.
- You want them to be a leader, not a follower.
- You want them to learn to strive for excellence, but without feeling the need to “beat” or denigrate others in the process.
- You want them to develop the maturity to respect authority for the right reasons without accepting it unquestioningly, and, as needed, to learn to question and change things wisely and effectively.
Right?
Well, we share those desires.
I’m not trying to convince anyone that homeschooling is better than public schooling — as a well-adjusted, socialized adult who believes in freedom, tolerance, and diversity, I wholeheartedly respect and embrace you, no matter your opinions on the subject.
But I am inviting those who advocate public school for the sake of socialization to question what your children are actually getting in the way of socialization.
As Manfred Zysk wrote in his thought-provoking article “Homeschooling and the Myth of Socialization,”
“A family member asked my wife, ‘Aren’t you concerned about his (our son’s) socialization with other kids?’. My wife gave this response: ‘Go to your local middle school, junior high, or high school, walk down the hallways, and tell me which behavior you see that you think our son should emulate.’”
And for those concerned that our homeschooled children aren’t getting enough or appropriate socialization, I’m inviting you to consider that there are other ways to achieve healthy socialization, and we’re not raising our kids to be cloistered, introverted misfits.
We’re not opting them out of society.
We’re just opting them out of the strange public school bubble that, in our experience, doesn’t even represent normal, healthy society.
In other words, we’re socializing them for what they’ll actually experience beyond high school.
Recommended Reading:
- “Socialization: Homeschooling Vs. Schools” by Michael Haverluck
- “Homeschooling and the Myth of Socialization” by Manfred Zysk
- “Public School vs. Homeschool Socialization” by Joan Vasquez
This comment, 3/4 down in the article, “as a well-adjusted, socialized adult who believes in freedom, tolerance, and diversity, I wholeheartedly respect and embrace you, no matter your opinions on the subject” may not be “heard” because of this comment at the beginning of the article: “The idea that homeschoolers don’t get healthy social interaction is such a backwards, 20-years-ago perception”–which is a slam to anyone asking the question (or, it sounds to me like you’re saying, is a ‘stupid’ question). I think it’s a good question in that it gives you an opportunity to say what you said in the article–that which needs to be said. In fact, the more people ask that question, the more opportunity you have to shed light and understanding…
I would add to the list of social experiences: sexual harassment is okay.
Karina Palmer recently posted..What are We Socializing Them For?
As a well endowed 8th-12th grade girl I was sexually harassed pretty much daily in public school. By both boys and girls.
It was before they taught about and against harassment and I never
realized I could get help since some of the harassment I received was from adults, too.
Once in college things were much better,but so much damage to my self esteem was done. I ended up having surgery to remove parts of my body just to fit in and feel better about myself. That is pathetic! I do not regret having the surgery and still believe it was the right thing for ME to do as I prayed and fasted about it after consulting with doctors and thinking on it for a full year.
Do my kids need that and all the other social interaction I got in those years? Not an ounce of it!!! I pulled my kids out of public school at the stage it all was beginning in there lives.
They can see for themselves at 14 and 12 that they are in the right place now at home and with kids they choose to interact with not the ones that would have been forced on them.
Thank you for your article.
Interesting how all of that harassment led you to alter your body in a way that you not only don’t regret, but are happy with. Maybe you wouldn’t have thought about it, or had the courage,had everyone around you coddled you and told you other people’s opinions don’t matter. Which of course is another opinion that shouldn’t matter… and round and round we go…
You are right, I am happy with my decision. I guess most people who are fondled in the hallways, called horrible names, and propositioned regularly just because of the size of their body parts (NOT because of how they are dressed or acted, because I never wore anything or did anything that would cause more attention) would find peace in having harassment and manhandling stopped.
Knowing that when a man asked me on a date it was because he saw me for me. Having people look me in the eyes was the best feeling ever.
What I find pathetic about it is that it took cutting off parts of my body to be treated and respected like a real person. Who I was inside should have been respected without surgery.
Maybe I was weak for having given in and having it done, but after 5+ years of being abused I did what I did to save myself.
Great article I love it. I tried to write a blurb about my thoughts but I come across sounding like an idiot, basically I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. The socialization my kid is getting in public school isn’t the kind of socialization I want for her.
You make a lot of good points and gave me a lot to think about but, I do not agree with your perception of public schools. Those that I went to, both on the east coast and in west, were not terrible places that encouraged bullying and competition. I really enjoyed my public schooling experience although it was not perfect. I have also worked in public schools for the past 7 years and still don’t see those behaviors tolerated, of course they can and do happen, I wouldn’t say it is the norm.
Kellie, I too think you were really lucky. I have heard from many other people that this was not their experience as well; it never ceases to surprise me. The majority of people I know, though, agree with Steve’s (and my) perception of the social experience in public school. I am glad to hear about good experiences.
Karina Palmer recently posted..What are We Socializing Them For?
I have been out of High School for over 25 years (holy cow… time flies), and my experience in Massachusetts is exactly how it has been described… bullying, everything was sexualized, making fun of the poor and those with mental or physical challenges… crazy stuff. And recently, as a homeschooling dad, with 7 kids, I had the opportunity to travel the Midwest of the USA teaching public school teachers how to prepare their students for standardized tests. Most of the teachers I talked with, some at great length, were really disillusioned with the entire system of public education. They didn’t have a solution, mind you, but they generally expressed a deep dissatisfaction with the current system and solutions, and felt that the children were getting the ‘short end of the stick’. This came directly from the mouths of many of the teachers I interacted with, while traveling across the US, teaching teachers.
I am not denying that there are problems with the public education system, I fully understand that. And I agree that bullying is a big problem that needs to be addressed. But in my experience public school was not the terrible place that many have described it to be.
All I can say is that you were incredibly lucky while in school. Now that you are working in the schools there is a whole side to your school you are missing.
I was beat up, knocked down, slapped and otherwise tormented daily. I knew that it was pointless to tell teachers that told me to “suck it up”, and the ones that attempted to intervene made things worse.
I learned that it is not good to be smart, it was not good to be the first person done on an assignment, or know the right answers. It is not good to have clothes that weren’t brand new or to have interests outside of the mainstream.
Look at Columbine, both of the shooters were gifted children bullied for years
http://gcq.sagepub.com/content/50/2/148.abstract
As far as socialization I did not have a clue how to socialize when I graduated High School, everything I know about it I learned afterwards.
Of course once I got into college all of the sudden clothes don’t matter. If you are different or like something out of the mainstream, “That’s cool.” Then, “Oh, you are smart? Great!”
I am a speech pathologist and work in an elementary school so maybe the behaviors you have mentioned aren’t as prevalent or severe in my school but the majority of students I work with have disabilities, so I think I do understand a lot of what they go through. Every school is a different situation with different student who have different issues, so I just don’t think it is fair to lay our blanket statements that all school have the exact same problems. Like I mentioned above I do understand that bullying is a big problem in most schools and I definitely think it needs to be addressed. I also think that areas of socialization or social skills should be taught to all kids. I teach it to a lot of my students because some kids pick them up on their own and others don’t. I am so sorry about your experience in school; no one should have to go through that.
I was a freak in school, and I didn’t experience most of what this author claimed went on in school, and I went to a few different schools. But, all those pretty bullet points make for a nice article.
Kellie, I’m SO glad you had a different experience with public school than I did.
As I said, I’m not trying to convince anyone that homeschooling is superior.
If what you’re doing works for your family, then keep on keeping on.
Thanks for commenting!
I totally agree, I think that it is every parents responsibility to look at each individual child, do what they feel is best, and to be involved in their child’s education. Sounds like you are doing a great job at what you doing! (:
I was home schooled myself. I don’t feel like I have ever suffered socially.
That may be true, Josh, but you’re still a nerd.
Nice article. You are a great writer, Steve. I agree with what you said here. I dont think “socialization” is necessarily considered a plus, or a reason to send our children to school, by everyone who sends their kids to school. In fact, that is the biggest drawback of school in my opinion. I take my hat off to families who do a fantastic job homeschooling and it is my opinion that in the world we live in, and with the options available for most people, homeschooling often is the best option, and represents the ideal when done well. The biggest hurdle for me is doing it WELL, with everything else I am responsible for. We currently send our oldest to a charter school where, all things considered, we have had a great experience. Personally, I don’t feel like I am at a place in MY life (regardless of what is ideal for my kids) where I can provide a better education than what she is getting at school–at least not without relying way too heavily on the over-abused excuse that “the baby/household chores/family life is/are the lesson.” Academics are very important to me, even at a young age. I am so glad that there is more than one way to do it right!!!
Thank you for that response, Angela. I remember that in 1st grade I went to a private school and it was like heaven to me. Then, for some reason, I went back into public school the rest of my years and it was so very different and confusing to me that kids behaved the way they did. A bigger kid walked past and kicked my prized Holly Hobby lunch box which skidded it across the blacktop and dented it. I think private school settings are best, and I particularly like school uniforms
Karina Palmer recently posted..What are We Socializing Them For?
Hey, Angela, I am so glad for what you wrote here because I can relate. We have a homeschool livestyle (I don’t really like to say “We homeschool” because it sounds like a coat we put on and take off later, we see it as a life philosophy). But, interestingly, this year, we invited our oldest daughter to start studying at a private French school, mostly initially inspired by efforts to help a young woman here in Honduras get into an English school, which dramatically improves her odds at studying next year at a US college, which is her dear wish. These education decisions mean the difference in poverty and comfort, even basic provision of health and a decent home. In my heart grew a passionate need to provide opportunities that the world outside the US will recognize since we may not move home for some years and my kids will be looking at international options. I don’t have the same feeling right now with the other kids, but I am open to whatever needs to happen. I am married to the idea of doing my best for the kids not to one method or another, without fear either way of socialization. I feel that home love and life are the compass and I am seeing that this was the right decision for my girl, who was on track to be that awkward stereotype. She is so alive and kind right now. It makes a difference that she is in a private school, though. I went to both public and private and they are worlds apart in social environment.
That looks like I am saying that the answer to her social need was sending her to school. In part I am saying that, but it goes along with the feeling of my overall comment that it can depend on individual needs and my commitment to doing best for each child may result in different paths. Hope that makes sense.
As a homeschooling mother of five, I really enjoyed this article. Thank you Steve! I, like Kellie, didn’t feel that it was the norm for everyone to act unkind in public school. I think that it depended on the type of people you hung around, and how observant you were of those you didn’t hang out with! I had very good friends, most of them were kind to others. But, I also noticed those who didn’t dress and nice, and who acted strange. They were outcasts, and I talked to them some, but I felt that I would be looked down upon for really hanging out with them outside of school. That is one of my regrets, that I was not truly a friend to those kids. It takes a stronge kid to not care what the multitudes think of them. I guess I just accepted early on that I was not popular, and that the popular kids were sometimes not too nice, (not all of them, some were amazingly compassionate and kind) so I didn’t need to try to be one of them. The one socializing aspect of school that I didn’t like was that the athletes, dancers, and cheerleaders were idolized.
And as for Angela’s comment, I want to share my feelings on homeschooling. Academics are very important to me too. I was a straight A student. But….I didn’t learn anything. That may sound funny. But, I was really good and cramming for a test last minute and remembering everything short term. I could see a picture of the inside of a plant, and know that it was a plant, but to remember any of the parts would be beyond me. I would have to study it again. I learned math well, because I loved math. I truly learned only the things that I wanted to learn. I did not even come to the decision that learning was enjoyable until my last year in college. I received a Bachelors Degree and think of it as nothing but wasted time since I was only there to be socially accepted and to please my family. I thought it was necessary, but was not what I wanted to do. I wished that last year that I had found the love of learning earlier…I would have remembered so much more than I do.
For the past 6 years of homeschooling I have tried to figure out what it meant to me to homeschool. I was trying to prove that I was doing a good job. I would tell people what we had been studying and have my kids show off their knowledge to others. And it would bug me to no end when my cute nieces would come over and quiz my kids to see if they knew what they were learning in public school. I think that I have finally come to peace with myself and homeschooling. This is what I have discovered. The most important things to me for my children to learn are things of God. That is the main reason for homeschooling. I also feel that it is important for them to understand math as much as possible, and to know how to read and write. I want them to know how to study a subject that is interesting to them. I expose them to many other areas, such as history, art, music, geology, geography, etc. But, I don’t think it is important to try and force them to learn it all. The reason I don’t feel that I have to teach it all to them anymore is this…like I said, I was a straight A student, my husband was not a good student, and both of us have learned most of what we use and talk about since graduating. We learn what we want to learn. I only remember the things I wanted to learn. I never did learn literature in school. The explanation of words and how they should be place in a sentence had no application to me, so I never did really learn them until I started teaching them to my kids. I have decided to hand my kids education over them. That may sound crazy to people who don’t particularly like my view of education. But, I feel that agency is above all the most important thing in helping a child enjoy school. We study the gospel, read, do math, and practice writing. Other than that, my children learn and study what they want to. My eldest loves to study animals and electronics. My second loves geography. And my others are too young to show an interest in anything beyond their reading and math.
Sorry for going on too long. But I wanted people to see that they CAN homeschool, it’s really not that hard. You don’t have to prove anything to anyone. Your kids will learn what they want to when they want to. That’s how we learn as adults!
That was very well said, Becky. Thank you.
Karina Palmer recently posted..Alex is Almost 12
Beautiful! Thank you so much. What you said seems to be the theme of what I have heard from other sources this week and what I needed to hear as I enter the third year for my oldest 2 kids and second year for my 3 younger kids of home educating.
Step by step HE leads us to where we need to be!
Hi, Thanks for the wonderfully written article. I totally understand about being ‘looked down on’ for my “alternative” views on children…home birth and home schooling comes to mind. Personally, I think socialization is an over rated “positive” of public schools. What should be the concern above socialization is 1) is the child gaining a ‘love of learning’ attitude and 2) is he/she learning the basics of education reading, writing and arithmetic.
One more note…isn’t it funny how home (birth/school) are considered “alternative” ideas when this country’s earliest leaders were most likely taught and birthed at home.
Very well written, son.
My wife and I were talking about your article again this morning… And it occurred to me that the only place (or one of the few places) that peer pressure of the same sort still exists in the lives of adults, is in the very belief and practice that your kids “need” to get properly “socialized” in the public schools to be normal functioning members of society. Just my 2bits.
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Very interesting article, Steve, and thought-provoking. The reason my kids go to public school is definitely not just for the socialization they will get there and I believe and respect that it is every parent’s decision to decide where and how their children should be educated.
That said, I did have one contention to raise with you regarding your statement that you have never been bullied by another adult because he was older than you. Fortunately, my public school experience, particularly in high school, was not like you describe yours to be and I did NOT go through high school feeling that the only important things were appearance and popularity and that kids older than me were better and those younger than me were not “cool.” However, as a high school student, I did experience what I would call “bullying” from adults both in and outside of school. The high school principal “bullied” me for the rest of my senior year when I did not agree to turn down first place in a scholarship competition that I had won so another student whom he thought was more “competitive” for the next level of the scholarship competition could win the award. I (and my parents) also experienced “bullying” from several adults in my neighborhood when (as a high school student) I wrote several letters to the editor of the local newspaper that they did not agree with.
In addition, as a young female attorney, I experienced an excessive amount of what I would call “bullying” from “older” (and usually male) attorneys and even from partners in my own law firm. Recently, I was subjected to bullying by the president of our former HOA.
My point is that, in the real “adult” world, I have experienced being bullied by other adults simply because they were older and me and felt that they could push me around because of their age and/or position.
My oldest son was bullied by another student for several months in his second grade class, and while I was not happy that it occurred or that it was being allowed to occur by the teacher (and would never wish it to occur to anyone else), as a result of going through it he learned how to control his reaction to bullying, which is a skill I am glad he has learned and that I have had to learn as a teenager and as an adult. Regardless of whether a child learns “socialization” skills in public school or out of it, it is important that they learn how to deal and react with unkind and bullying people at all ages because they are out there in the world.
Jody, great comment. You raise some excellent points.
You’re absolutely right that the adult world isn’t absolutely wonderful, devoid of any of the issues I experienced in high school.
I should have stressed more that yes, I have experienced my share of jerk adults.
However, I think there’s a critical difference between the public school world I experienced and the adult world I’ve experienced since leaving public school.
In public school, this kind of behavior was completely acceptable and even encouraged (mostly by fellow students, but also by some teachers and coaches). I was mocked by fellow students for standing up for their favorite targets of abuse; that wasn’t “cool,” whereas the mocking was considered “cool.”
See this post as just one example of many.
(Again, I’m speaking from my experience, so if this doesn’t match yours, I’m sincerely happy for you.)
In contrast, in the adult world there are plenty of jerks, but there’s a broadly-accepted cultural morality and ethic that says it’s not acceptable behavior.
I 100% agree with you that children need to learn how to appropriately and effectively deal with meanness and unfairness of any stripe.
I absolutely want to instill that confident and those skills in my children.
However, I’d prefer to do it in an environment where it is unmistakeably clear where the lines of acceptable behavior are drawn.
I believe that, generally speaking, the public school environment grossly distorts those lines and boundaries of decency and morality.
Furthermore, I believe that, if done right, homeschooled children can leave the home much more so equipped to deal with these issues than other children.
This is in contrast to the common opinion that homeschoolers are sheltered, and therefore unable to cope with the “real” world when they experience it.
That may be true for some, but I vigorously refute that it is the norm; I’ve had too much experience with confident, well-adjusted, powerful products of homeschooling.
Having said that, if a family can achieve the same goal in a public or other school setting, good on them.
Thanks again for your thoughtful comment.
I do not appreciate the negativity of this article.
It is hard for me to believe that you “wholeheartedly respect and embrace” my decision to send my children to a public school when you spend half of the article saying it only gives you negative social experiences.
I respect that you believe you are doing what you believe is best for your children, you and God are the only ones who need to worry about that. Stop trying to publicly justify your decision in such a way. It’s like you are mudslinging so the voters will be on your side. If you truly respect me and my decision, then don’t bash public schools.
I do not send my children to public school to teach them socialization. We attend church as a family and I teach them right from wrong, then send them out into the world to grow and be tested, just as the Lord did for us. I communicate constantly with them, and their teachers, and they each LOVE school.
Vanessa,
You’re obviously doing a phenomenal job of mothering your children, and I honor and applaud you for that.
I did not mean for my article to be personal at all, other than to share my personal experience with public school.
I understand — and am profoundly and sincerely glad — that many others have not shared my experience.
I also know that there are many, many families that thrive in the public system for precisely the reasons you gave—the parents own their role and do not delegate critical functions to others.
The article is simply an explanation of one aspect of why my family chooses to homeschool.
It wasn’t intended as evangelizing or mudslinging. It’s just an inescapable fact that I personally had, to be frank, a horrible experience with public school.
If a woman divorced an abusive husband and she shared how she was abused by him, would that be considered her bashing marriage?
The truth is, I believe you and I are on the same side.
We both want our children to become God-fearing, moral, confident, loving, caring, successful adults who make the world a better place.
I’m certain we would both agree that homeschooling has its flaws, and that it can be done very badly.
And I’m certain that we would agree that the public school system also has its flaws — and that ultimately, it’s parents like you who make the difference and compensate for the flaws in any educational system, philosophy, or methodology.
My sincere hope is that people like you and me, despite disagreements regarding practical application, can work together to improve education, regardless of style.
To that end, I hope we can be honest and open about our respective personal experiences, in order to identify and build on the good and eliminate the bad.
And the truth is that, based on many conversations I’ve had with many other people, and as evidenced by many of the other comments on this article, my experience isn’t an isolated case.
That doesn’t mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water. But I do believe it’s a conversation that should not be disregarded.
I wasn’t going to comment but as I perused the comments and saw that last comment (not from the blogger) I had to write in my thoughts. I’m not sure where all the anger is coming from. So tired of hearing someone whine because they don’t like what they read. Don’t like someones blog~ maybe try reading something else, just a thought. I don’t like a lot of what I hear, read or see and I don’t usually pop off on someone’s blog because I don’t like what they say, feel or do. Wear some big girl panties and stop thinking everything is about you or against you. Talk about bullying, let’s ridicule you publicly since we aren’t in home room together…
Anyway, this post hit it on the nail TO ME. That was how I felt in school from elementary all through high school. I love the cartoon because I FEEL it is exactly how I realize school has become thanks to outcome based education pushing out traditional education.
The old socializing quip every homeschool parent hears every time they leave. I had this same conversation with a teacher friend just today. She told me that she was amazed that my children were so social as usually homeschool kids are not. I had to laugh. I went to school with weird and unsocial kids. I pointed out to her that there are children who attend public school and they aren’t anymore social than oscar the grouch when they graduate high school.
Video games, facebook, online gaming, texting and instant messaging have all taken the place of actual interaction. With the creation of typing, handwriting has been kicked to the curb, will it be the same with actual conversation? I think socializing is up the parents and not the school. The parents are the models for children to follow and set the rules of proper social etiquette. Some parents take a back seat to schools, letting them set the rules. Some parents choose to let television/video games raise their children.
Some of my son’s kids come over and they expect to play video games the all day long, because they get to at their house. I am sorry, you came to play… go have fun figuring out how, I always respond. You see kids and adults standing next to each other and texting back and forth, talk to each other. I have friends who text their teenage kids because it’s easier than talking to them. Once again setting the examples of social etiquette where message rings are louder than words.
Stephen,
I enjoyed your article very much, and linked to your cartoon in my own blogpost regarding the socialization issue. I truly feel it is time for us to change the discourse on this subject and let the skeptics know that, NO, we do not want to socialize our children. We want them to be sociable – two completely different terms. I’m tired of “them” determining the conversation and then us homeschoolers having to defend ourselves.
Have a fabulous day!
Darlene
Darlene @ Life On The Franco Farm recently posted..Socialized or Sociable?
Ali Wicks-Lim I found this interesting but a little problematic. I wonder if some of the behaviors that the writer attributes to public school are actually age-based and not unique to a public school environment. I’ve seen plenty of home schooled kids r…elate to one another in those ways and I wonder if maybe it’s a (sadly) normal part of social development that is just magnified a little by the public school environment. Also, I question the claim that public schooled children are only socialized with children ther own age. At my son’s school the older kids help the younger kids and kids of different ages share the playground, cafeteria etc. I am always glad that in a school of over 400 children so many of them know my son by name and greet him with enthusiasm in the hallways. Finally, though I struggle with some things about his public school experience one that I really value is that he is being placed in a socilal situation with people who are very, very different from those I migth choose for him. Though it can be challenging I believe that it is very important to learn the skill of relating to all different kinds of people, and it is a skill that will definately carry over into “real life” after his school years.
I would like to add that I feel that using the quote below is unecessarily polarizing:
“A family member asked my wife, ‘Aren’t you concerned about his (our son’s) socialization with other kids?’. My wife gave this response: ‘Go to your local middle school, junior high, or high school, walk down the hallways, and tell me which behavior you see that you think our son should emulate.’”
When I visit my son’s school (which I do reegulary to volunteer in his classoom, meet him for lunch etc) I see the following behaviors that I would like him to emulate: Children talking with one another in a friendly, respectful way regardless of their age, race, ethnicity, gender or economic background. Children developing confidence about their ability to manage large groups and negotiate a chaotic environment.Children helping one another and taking pride in their ability to do so. Children feeling independant even though there is a structure in place to support them if they need it. Childeren supporting one another when social challenges arise. Childeren who choose unkind behavior being told by other children that they should stop…and listening much more to their peers than they might to an adult. I could go on but I think you see where I’m coming from. I am not the least bit anti home-schooling, I considered it for my son and would still consider it if school stopped working for him, but I take issue with sweeping judgements about he and his friends.
Ali,
As I’ve said to other comments, I’m so glad you and your children have had different experiences than I did in public school.
If you re-read my post carefully, you’ll find that I make no sweeping judgments at all; I simply speak of my experience.
I’m addressing those who judge us for our choice to homeschool and describing my personal experience.
If public school works for your family, keep on keeping on.
I’ve experienced both public and private schools in various geographic areas for myself and my children. I don’t agree with your assessment at all of public schools, but that’s beside the point. My experience and your experience are different and equally valid.
What is interesting to me is your assessment of community college and the adult workplace. That one is way beyond my comprehension. I attended a community college (2 years), a public university (2 years), and worked within various industries as an adult. I have never, ever experienced more racism, sexism, ageism, classism, polarized thinking, acceptance of sub-standard work performance, unethical and immoral behavior, emphasis on appearances, promotion of the “don’t think, just do as you’re told” mindset, and general bad behavior (mocking, harassment, generalized bullying, making fun of “others” etc.) as I saw in my community college, and more so, in the workplace. I’ve worked for small businesses and large corporations, and business that are in between. I’ve worked where the average education level is a high school diploma, and where my colleagues all, at minimum, hold a Bachelor’s degree, and most have multiple degrees beyond that. I’ve worked in big cities, small cities, suburbs, and nearly-rural areas. And it’s always the same- because human nature is the same.
I don’t send my kids to school to be socialized, but if you want to talk about what we are socializing kids for… then it seems to me that your experiences in PS (which again, I don’t share and can’t speak to) would be great preparation for what they can expect in the workplace.
graceling recently posted..MRA Hoedown
Well said–that was exactly the point I was trying to put across in my above comment.
Graceling, I appreciate your comment as well, particularly this point: “My experience and your experience are different and equally valid.”
That is precisely the over-arching point of this entire point: To tell those who judge us for homeschooling to stop judging us.
We’re not idiots. We’re not anti-social. We’ve simply had different experiences, and we have different goals than others.
We’ve found what works for us, and we make no judgments about those who make different decisions than us who have found what works for them.
Thanks again.